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Meet The Woman Who Makes $50M With Boring Businesses with Codie Sanchez

Published on: December 9 2022 by MyWifeQuitHerJob Ecommerce Channel

Meet The Woman Who Makes $50M With Boring Businesses with Codie Sanchez

Meet The Woman Who Makes $50M With Boring Businesses with Codie Sanchez

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00:00:00 00:00:03 if I'm unsure on the business like I'm
00:00:02 00:00:05 buying another website business and
00:00:03 00:00:07 let's say I actually want the owner to
00:00:05 00:00:10 stay around I might say hey I'll give
00:00:07 00:00:12 you 25 000 for the business right now or
00:00:10 00:00:13 75 000 if you stik around for three
00:00:12 00:00:15 years twenty five thousand dollars a
00:00:13 00:00:17 year
00:00:15 00:00:19 welcome to the my wife quitter job
00:00:17 00:00:21 podcast today I'm happy to have Cody
00:00:19 00:00:23 Sanchez on the show now and I didn't
00:00:21 00:00:25 really know who she was at the time but
00:00:23 00:00:27 this woman walks out in leather pants
00:00:25 00:00:29 confidence dried and the first thought
00:00:27 00:00:31 that goes through my head is that this
00:00:29 00:00:33 woman is a badass Cody is the founder of
00:00:31 00:00:36 contrarian thinking and a co-founder of
00:00:33 00:00:38 unconventional Acquisitions where she
00:00:36 00:00:39 helps people think outside the box when
00:00:38 00:00:42 it comes to businesses and she
00:00:39 00:00:45 specializes in boring businesses that
00:00:42 00:00:46 cash flow like crazy she is a reformed
00:00:45 00:00:48 journalist turned Institutional Investor
00:00:46 00:00:50 a board member at a variety of companies
00:00:48 00:00:53 an investor and she's gonna teach us
00:00:50 00:00:55 today how to think critikally and make
00:00:53 00:00:57 money unconventionally and with that
00:00:55 00:00:59 welcome to show Cody how you doing great
00:00:57 00:01:01 thanks I gotta record that
00:00:59 00:01:03 hey I was always curious what does it
00:01:01 00:01:06 mean to be a reformed journalist
00:01:03 00:01:09 but I used to be a journalist and then I
00:01:06 00:01:12 realized that I wanted to be part of the
00:01:09 00:01:15 activity not write about the activity
00:01:12 00:01:18 and so I consider myself a bit of a
00:01:15 00:01:20 reformed journalist in that sense and
00:01:18 00:01:22 what about boring businesses like how
00:01:20 00:01:23 did you get into that yeah well boring
00:01:22 00:01:25 businesses were interesting for me
00:01:23 00:01:26 because
00:01:25 00:01:29 um you know I've been in private equity
00:01:26 00:01:31 for a long time and private Equity is
00:01:29 00:01:33 essentially just investing in boring
00:01:31 00:01:34 businesses that's all it is and it's
00:01:33 00:01:37 done at scale and with other people's
00:01:34 00:01:39 money but when I started doing it myself
00:01:37 00:01:41 I just realized hey I'm doing all of
00:01:39 00:01:44 these really big lbos they're called
00:01:41 00:01:46 Leverage buyouts for third parties and
00:01:44 00:01:47 we're doing maybe Billion Dollar Deals
00:01:46 00:01:49 maybe deals that are hundreds of
00:01:47 00:01:51 millions of dollars why couldn't I do
00:01:49 00:01:53 the same thing but much smaller and
00:01:51 00:01:54 since they make all of the money when we
00:01:53 00:01:56 do the big deals if I do the small deals
00:01:54 00:01:59 then I can capture all of that return
00:01:56 00:02:00 and so I started looking at what are
00:01:59 00:02:03 businesses that most people don't think
00:02:00 00:02:04 are sexy but cash flow on day one of you
00:02:03 00:02:06 closing and acquisition and those are
00:02:04 00:02:09 the businesses I started looking at
00:02:06 00:02:11 buying okay you know what's funny uh
00:02:09 00:02:13 when I was growing up I had a lot of
00:02:11 00:02:15 Korean friends and whenever I went over
00:02:13 00:02:17 their houses they were really nice
00:02:15 00:02:19 houses and it seemed like they were
00:02:17 00:02:22 killing it and here's the thing they ran
00:02:19 00:02:24 boring businesses like laundromats dry
00:02:22 00:02:26 cleaners Custom Tailor businesses and
00:02:24 00:02:28 I'm guessing that they did pretty well
00:02:26 00:02:31 totally yeah I mean I think you know if
00:02:28 00:02:32 you actually look at communities and
00:02:31 00:02:34 where people spend most of their money
00:02:32 00:02:38 it's certainly you know they're how
00:02:34 00:02:40 their rent right their car food and then
00:02:38 00:02:43 it's local Services you know it's like
00:02:40 00:02:44 getting your your house plumbing fixed
00:02:43 00:02:46 because something goes wrong your air
00:02:44 00:02:48 conditioner doing the Landscaping in
00:02:46 00:02:50 front of your house um going out to
00:02:48 00:02:52 local restaurants or entertainment
00:02:50 00:02:53 venues
00:02:52 00:02:55 um you know having somebody wash your
00:02:53 00:02:57 car it's all of these little things we
00:02:55 00:02:59 think about every day not all of us are
00:02:57 00:03:01 using you know a tik stack of you know
00:02:59 00:03:02 all of these companies that we think
00:03:01 00:03:04 about from the Silicon Valley
00:03:02 00:03:06 perspective sure we use Uber but most
00:03:04 00:03:08 people actually probably don't use Uber
00:03:06 00:03:11 every single day or every single week
00:03:08 00:03:12 you know and in fact what you do use
00:03:11 00:03:15 every single day is like some of your
00:03:12 00:03:18 local companies and so I think we've
00:03:15 00:03:19 skewed ourselves to believe that most of
00:03:18 00:03:21 the riches are made from Silicon Valley
00:03:19 00:03:23 companies
00:03:21 00:03:24 um and that is true for a select few but
00:03:23 00:03:27 for everyday humans who don't have the
00:03:24 00:03:28 idea to become the next Elon Musk and
00:03:27 00:03:30 really just want to provide for their
00:03:28 00:03:31 families and provide better services for
00:03:30 00:03:33 the community around them I think it's
00:03:31 00:03:35 really important actually that we
00:03:33 00:03:37 remember that boring businesses you know
00:03:35 00:03:39 keep our everyday lives rolling and so
00:03:37 00:03:41 you get to profit off of that if you
00:03:39 00:03:42 invest in them but you also get to
00:03:41 00:03:44 benefit the community so it's an
00:03:42 00:03:46 interesting two-for-one
00:03:44 00:03:48 so a boring business by your definition
00:03:46 00:03:50 is something that doesn't necessarily
00:03:48 00:03:54 use tik or just an everyday service
00:03:50 00:03:54 yeah I think of foreign businesses
00:03:55 00:04:00 and you want to grow up and do so you
00:03:58 00:04:02 know you might say one day I want to be
00:04:00 00:04:04 an engineer or one day I want to be an
00:04:02 00:04:06 air air pilot but you're probably not
00:04:04 00:04:08 going to grow up and say I want to run a
00:04:06 00:04:12 sprinkler company or you know I want to
00:04:08 00:04:14 run a company that does lot Landscaping
00:04:12 00:04:16 across town and so it's a totally made
00:04:14 00:04:19 up definition that basically is just
00:04:16 00:04:21 saying anything that you wouldn't think
00:04:19 00:04:22 of as wanting to be a CEO you know maybe
00:04:21 00:04:24 there's a way to make money in that
00:04:22 00:04:26 space and sometimes businesses are tik
00:04:24 00:04:27 enabled to be fair
00:04:26 00:04:29 let me ask you this so I sell
00:04:27 00:04:31 handkerchiefs online is that considered
00:04:29 00:04:33 a boring business yeah what except I
00:04:31 00:04:35 think there's this e-commerce component
00:04:33 00:04:37 of it which makes it a little bit sexier
00:04:35 00:04:39 right so you know I don't know how you
00:04:37 00:04:41 can make hankies sexy but keep going I
00:04:39 00:04:43 think you can do it with um you know you
00:04:41 00:04:46 need to understand how to build websites
00:04:43 00:04:48 well and have traffic and do paid ads
00:04:46 00:04:50 Etc a lot of these businesses you know
00:04:48 00:04:53 are mom and pop businesses that have
00:04:50 00:04:55 been in existence for you know 10 20
00:04:53 00:04:57 years at times so it's it's certainly a
00:04:55 00:05:00 boring business
00:04:57 00:05:01 um but even so I might think you know
00:05:00 00:05:04 the manufacturer of the handkerchiefs
00:05:01 00:05:07 locally or the trucking company that
00:05:04 00:05:10 that locally routes them to locations or
00:05:07 00:05:13 the pack and ship where you know your
00:05:10 00:05:14 employees go and you know send off your
00:05:13 00:05:16 first round of handker ships that are
00:05:14 00:05:18 located on the the corner so I need to
00:05:16 00:05:19 come up with a better way to explain
00:05:18 00:05:21 like what the real difference is between
00:05:19 00:05:24 the two
00:05:21 00:05:27 um but yes even you run a sexy business
00:05:24 00:05:28 Okay so uh how do you find these I know
00:05:27 00:05:30 you own a bunch of these let's let's
00:05:28 00:05:32 just use some examples of the ones that
00:05:30 00:05:33 you've personally owned or interacted
00:05:32 00:05:36 with
00:05:33 00:05:38 so the the way that most people go and
00:05:36 00:05:39 find them to start is just like you buy
00:05:38 00:05:41 a house so you go to like Zillow or
00:05:39 00:05:42 Redfin or whatever and you look for a
00:05:41 00:05:44 house and there are sites that you can
00:05:42 00:05:47 do that for buying boring businesses too
00:05:44 00:05:50 like e-commerce flipper you know flip uh
00:05:47 00:05:52 Biz by cell for sure that's like the
00:05:50 00:05:55 entry level way to do it you know the
00:05:52 00:05:57 way that I find deals now is is
00:05:55 00:06:00 typically a little bit more asymmetric
00:05:57 00:06:03 like it's not like okay step one you do
00:06:00 00:06:04 this step two you do this which is why I
00:06:03 00:06:06 think there'll always be opportunity in
00:06:04 00:06:10 it because there's about 472 ways to
00:06:06 00:06:11 find a business and our um group called
00:06:10 00:06:13 unconventional Acquisitions where we
00:06:11 00:06:14 have a course that toks about how to
00:06:13 00:06:16 buy boring businesses we tok about 13
00:06:14 00:06:18 different ways
00:06:16 00:06:19 um but there's many more than that
00:06:18 00:06:21 that's just sort of to get the juices
00:06:19 00:06:24 flowing some of my favorite ways to find
00:06:21 00:06:27 businesses to buy is this so one I go
00:06:24 00:06:28 out publicly and I do it across all my
00:06:27 00:06:30 social media and I do it in every
00:06:28 00:06:31 interaction where I say I buy boring
00:06:30 00:06:33 businesses like you and I toked about
00:06:31 00:06:35 and so I say this is what I do you know
00:06:33 00:06:37 if people are looking to sell if there's
00:06:35 00:06:40 somebody you know who's retiring maybe
00:06:37 00:06:41 the you know Mom the patriarch of the
00:06:40 00:06:42 matriarch is ready to move on the kid
00:06:41 00:06:44 doesn't want to take over the company
00:06:42 00:06:46 those are the type of companies I like
00:06:44 00:06:48 to buy so I just word of mouth and then
00:06:46 00:06:50 the second way that I do it a lot is I
00:06:48 00:06:52 look through my personal p l like what
00:06:50 00:06:54 are all the companies that I interact
00:06:52 00:06:55 with every day and are any of them small
00:06:54 00:06:58 enough that I could actually go and
00:06:55 00:06:59 acquire one of those companies obviously
00:06:58 00:07:02 I can't do that with Google but maybe I
00:06:59 00:07:04 could do it with the local
00:07:02 00:07:06 you know a ship center down the street
00:07:04 00:07:07 from me that I go and ship out all the
00:07:06 00:07:10 time why don't I get to know the owner
00:07:07 00:07:12 what kills me is most people go well
00:07:10 00:07:13 what if you don't know any owners and I
00:07:12 00:07:15 can almost guarantee you that there is
00:07:13 00:07:18 no human in the United States who knows
00:07:15 00:07:21 zero business owners it's just like it's
00:07:18 00:07:23 not possible if you are interacting at
00:07:21 00:07:24 all outside of your house you may know
00:07:23 00:07:25 the owner of the gas station because
00:07:24 00:07:28 you're probably toking to him because
00:07:25 00:07:30 he's doing the checkout for you
00:07:28 00:07:32 um and so just start toking to as many
00:07:30 00:07:33 people that are owners as possible you
00:07:32 00:07:35 know I've actually gotten to this habit
00:07:33 00:07:38 of whenever I walk into a small business
00:07:35 00:07:40 I'll chat with the owner and I'll
00:07:38 00:07:41 sometimes just ask them for numbers and
00:07:40 00:07:43 a lot of times they're actually quite
00:07:41 00:07:45 forthcoming with their business and
00:07:43 00:07:46 stuff it's really interesting a great
00:07:45 00:07:49 great it's a good way to get comfortable
00:07:46 00:07:50 with it especially like I'd be curious
00:07:49 00:07:52 like how you do it but I basically just
00:07:50 00:07:54 say something like oh yeah you know I
00:07:52 00:07:55 run a couple small businesses too how
00:07:54 00:07:57 are you guys doing like here's a couple
00:07:55 00:08:00 pain points in my business right now you
00:07:57 00:08:02 know we do you know we do about 300 000
00:08:00 00:08:03 in this one business but you know labor
00:08:02 00:08:05 is really tough how about you guys how
00:08:03 00:08:07 big is this business and then they'll
00:08:05 00:08:09 tell you right that's exactly how I do
00:08:07 00:08:11 it I always reveal a little tiny snippet
00:08:09 00:08:13 of something I always say that I run a
00:08:11 00:08:15 business too and you know I have these
00:08:13 00:08:17 problems too do you have it's exactly
00:08:15 00:08:18 the same tiknique yeah because it's
00:08:17 00:08:21 disarming right when you reveal
00:08:18 00:08:24 something about yourself first totally
00:08:21 00:08:27 and you know running businesses isn't
00:08:24 00:08:28 isn't easy and so I think all of us like
00:08:27 00:08:30 to hear from that's why we go to events
00:08:28 00:08:31 like the one where we met because we
00:08:30 00:08:32 want to hear from other business owners
00:08:31 00:08:35 what are they struggling with what's
00:08:32 00:08:36 working what's not and I mean I've sold
00:08:35 00:08:38 the businesses based on conversations
00:08:36 00:08:39 like that because some businesses I just
00:08:38 00:08:41 don't want to run anymore they're too
00:08:39 00:08:44 small or they're not working or whatever
00:08:41 00:08:45 and so um yeah I think it's like once
00:08:44 00:08:47 you get the business bug you want to
00:08:45 00:08:49 tok about it and so assume other owners
00:08:47 00:08:50 do too and even if you don't own a
00:08:49 00:08:53 business I think you could tok about it
00:08:50 00:08:55 like ah I'm obsessed with businesses you
00:08:53 00:08:56 know I don't own one right now but I've
00:08:55 00:08:57 actually been looking at a bunch and
00:08:56 00:08:59 your business model seems really
00:08:57 00:09:01 interesting like how does it work I
00:08:59 00:09:03 assume it would work like this so you
00:09:01 00:09:06 could do it without being an owner too
00:09:03 00:09:08 yeah absolutely so can you give me an
00:09:06 00:09:10 idea of like how much capital is
00:09:08 00:09:12 required and what it would cash flow
00:09:10 00:09:13 just one of your businesses just pick
00:09:12 00:09:15 any one of them I know you have like a
00:09:13 00:09:18 bunch yeah
00:09:15 00:09:21 this is like a not that helpful range
00:09:18 00:09:22 but the the answer is zero dollars to a
00:09:21 00:09:24 billion
00:09:22 00:09:25 um because you can do deals of any size
00:09:24 00:09:27 you know I was just toking to Drew
00:09:25 00:09:29 snake the other day a mutual friend of
00:09:27 00:09:31 ours and he's notorious for buying
00:09:29 00:09:33 businesses for zero dollars and he gives
00:09:31 00:09:36 them a REV share a percentage of his
00:09:33 00:09:38 future revenue or future profits that he
00:09:36 00:09:39 will take by taking their business and
00:09:38 00:09:41 growing them and the reason somebody
00:09:39 00:09:43 would do that obviously is because the
00:09:41 00:09:45 business is losing money let's say a or
00:09:43 00:09:48 they need his expertise
00:09:45 00:09:50 um you can also buy a business for zero
00:09:48 00:09:51 dollars if you do seller financing so if
00:09:50 00:09:53 the if the seller of the business is
00:09:51 00:09:55 like ah I don't want to run this anymore
00:09:53 00:09:57 nobody wants to buy it but would you run
00:09:55 00:09:59 the business and give me a percentage of
00:09:57 00:10:00 future profits or revenue and so you
00:09:59 00:10:01 know I think there's actually a lot of
00:10:00 00:10:04 businesses out there that you could buy
00:10:01 00:10:07 for basically nothing especially when
00:10:04 00:10:09 you realize that it costs money to shut
00:10:07 00:10:10 a business down I mean I don't know if
00:10:09 00:10:12 you've ever had to do it I've had to
00:10:10 00:10:14 shut down businesses and like it's a
00:10:12 00:10:16 couple Grand you know between like
00:10:14 00:10:18 getting rid of you know uh getting rid
00:10:16 00:10:20 of all of your licenses the you know
00:10:18 00:10:21 shutting down the llc's getting rid of
00:10:20 00:10:23 the bank account
00:10:21 00:10:25 um you know getting rid of your website
00:10:23 00:10:28 or any other outstanding services in
00:10:25 00:10:30 some states you can't even like fire all
00:10:28 00:10:31 of your employees right away you have to
00:10:30 00:10:33 do it on a graduated level like in
00:10:31 00:10:35 California for instance so there's a lot
00:10:33 00:10:37 of instances where business owners it
00:10:35 00:10:39 costs them more to shut down the
00:10:37 00:10:41 business than it would for somebody else
00:10:39 00:10:42 to take over it and just give them a
00:10:41 00:10:45 percentage of future profits
00:10:42 00:10:47 that is very interesting so when you've
00:10:45 00:10:49 done your Acquisitions do you try to put
00:10:47 00:10:52 down as little money as possible
00:10:49 00:10:55 what's your strategy yeah almost always
00:10:52 00:10:58 like for example it really depends you
00:10:55 00:11:00 know if I'm buying a business that's
00:10:58 00:11:03 small and I don't want the owner
00:11:00 00:11:04 involved anymore then I want to put down
00:11:03 00:11:07 all the cash and I want them out you
00:11:04 00:11:08 know if I'm buying a business where I
00:11:07 00:11:10 want the owner involved I actually want
00:11:08 00:11:11 to put down as little as cash as
00:11:10 00:11:14 possible because I want to incentivize
00:11:11 00:11:15 them to stay on with me so it depends on
00:11:14 00:11:17 the deal
00:11:15 00:11:20 um if I'm you know a young gun and I'm
00:11:17 00:11:22 taking over somebody's old website
00:11:20 00:11:23 that's really crappy and I don't need
00:11:22 00:11:25 anything for them and I know the whole
00:11:23 00:11:30 thing that I want to do going forward I
00:11:25 00:11:33 might say hey take 50k now or you know
00:11:30 00:11:34 whatever a larger amount over a period
00:11:33 00:11:35 but I'd like you to be gone because I
00:11:34 00:11:37 don't really need anything for you and
00:11:35 00:11:39 I'm just gonna run uh and I know that
00:11:37 00:11:41 I'd take the upfront hit because the
00:11:39 00:11:42 long term will be better if I'm unsure
00:11:41 00:11:45 on the business like I'm buying another
00:11:42 00:11:47 website business and let's say that the
00:11:45 00:11:49 business I actually want the owner to
00:11:47 00:11:52 stay around I might say hey I'll give
00:11:49 00:11:54 you 25 000 for the business right now or
00:11:52 00:11:55 75 000 if you stik around for three
00:11:54 00:11:56 years twenty five thousand dollars a
00:11:55 00:11:58 year
00:11:56 00:11:59 um and so it really depends on what you
00:11:58 00:12:01 want out of the deal the most important
00:11:59 00:12:04 part about buying businesses is what do
00:12:01 00:12:05 you want figuring out deal Clarity I
00:12:04 00:12:06 think
00:12:05 00:12:08 so on tiktok I've seen a bunch of
00:12:06 00:12:10 yours your businesses like there was one
00:12:08 00:12:13 I think where you were the person was
00:12:10 00:12:16 selling ice right and that's like one
00:12:13 00:12:18 dude who just has to go around and
00:12:16 00:12:20 manage these machines I guess in that
00:12:18 00:12:22 case the guy isn't as important right
00:12:20 00:12:24 it's the machines and I notiked a trend
00:12:22 00:12:26 in the ones that you tok about it all
00:12:24 00:12:28 seems to be like machines doing most of
00:12:26 00:12:30 the work right so I think that people
00:12:28 00:12:31 get attracted most to the ones where
00:12:30 00:12:33 machines do the work so I think that's
00:12:31 00:12:35 the most viral because you know
00:12:33 00:12:37 everybody's like oh I can have a
00:12:35 00:12:39 laundromat and it makes fifteen thousand
00:12:37 00:12:40 dollars a month and I never have to be
00:12:39 00:12:43 there the truth is something in between
00:12:40 00:12:46 which is you know vending machines ice
00:12:43 00:12:48 machines laundromats trucking businesses
00:12:46 00:12:49 whatever the case may be there's some
00:12:48 00:12:52 component that either you or your
00:12:49 00:12:53 operator has to be involved I like
00:12:52 00:12:55 toking about those type of businesses
00:12:53 00:12:57 because I think they're the gateway drug
00:12:55 00:13:00 drug to ownership so when I tok about
00:12:57 00:13:02 you know an ice vending business you're
00:13:00 00:13:05 like that's so simple I understand it
00:13:02 00:13:07 and I as a normal human am not
00:13:05 00:13:09 intimidated by the idea of running that
00:13:07 00:13:11 business I could probably figure that
00:13:09 00:13:14 out and I actually think it's really
00:13:11 00:13:17 important that we democratize and make
00:13:14 00:13:20 accessible business not just starting
00:13:17 00:13:21 businesses but owning businesses because
00:13:20 00:13:23 I mean think about it so many of the
00:13:21 00:13:24 problems we have today are because so
00:13:23 00:13:26 many people believe things should be
00:13:24 00:13:28 given to them and don't believe they're
00:13:26 00:13:31 capable of going out and getting
00:13:28 00:13:33 something and so if they start realizing
00:13:31 00:13:35 that ownership is accessible and there's
00:13:33 00:13:37 lots of paths to it you don't have to
00:13:35 00:13:40 have millions of dollars then they start
00:13:37 00:13:42 believing more in themselves and less in
00:13:40 00:13:43 you know government or others and that's
00:13:42 00:13:45 actually the biggest part of my purpose
00:13:43 00:13:48 is I tok about sort of getting money
00:13:45 00:13:50 quick because it's a trojan horse into
00:13:48 00:13:51 getting yourself free and the more free
00:13:50 00:13:53 humans we have I think the better
00:13:51 00:13:54 Society we have
00:13:53 00:13:56 I mean I think we have similar
00:13:54 00:13:58 philosophies but what's funny about this
00:13:56 00:14:00 is that ice vending machine business
00:13:58 00:14:02 actually does not sound attractive to me
00:14:00 00:14:04 as an engineer because you got to go
00:14:02 00:14:06 around manage these machines that
00:14:04 00:14:07 probably break down and then you gotta
00:14:06 00:14:08 for some of the like the laundromat you
00:14:07 00:14:10 actually have to physically go and
00:14:08 00:14:12 collect the money in the quarters and
00:14:10 00:14:14 whatnot whereas e-commerce which is what
00:14:12 00:14:16 I do everything's in our machine like I
00:14:14 00:14:18 don't like humans I mean I don't like
00:14:16 00:14:19 interacting with humans right so the
00:14:18 00:14:21 less interaction I have the better I'm
00:14:19 00:14:24 just kind of curious why you chose that
00:14:21 00:14:25 as like a gateway drug I think that's
00:14:24 00:14:27 great that when you know your deal
00:14:25 00:14:29 Clarity right your deal Clarity is I
00:14:27 00:14:31 know how to operate on the internet like
00:14:29 00:14:33 I know how to make a business run
00:14:31 00:14:35 efficiently without me being involved at
00:14:33 00:14:37 all and I know how to leverage the
00:14:35 00:14:40 internet to make my business more
00:14:37 00:14:41 effective right but I think for a lot of
00:14:40 00:14:42 people
00:14:41 00:14:44 um
00:14:42 00:14:46 that's not a skill set that they have
00:14:44 00:14:48 right myself included I was in finance
00:14:46 00:14:50 for a long time and we couldn't Market
00:14:48 00:14:51 there's no marketing on the internet in
00:14:50 00:14:52 finance well at least you're not
00:14:51 00:14:56 supposed to these days people are crazy
00:14:52 00:14:57 but um so I was an internet person an
00:14:56 00:14:59 e-commerce business would have scared
00:14:57 00:15:00 the hell out of me but if you told me
00:14:59 00:15:03 that I could go engage in this local
00:15:00 00:15:05 business and I hire out somebody to run
00:15:03 00:15:07 around to the ice machines and check on
00:15:05 00:15:08 them and I give them a percentage of the
00:15:07 00:15:10 revenue of the business and all I have
00:15:08 00:15:13 to be responsible for is like signage
00:15:10 00:15:15 and some minimal marketing and picking
00:15:13 00:15:17 the right location and financing it that
00:15:15 00:15:19 actually didn't intimidate me as much
00:15:17 00:15:21 but if I have to go you know in
00:15:19 00:15:23 e-commerce I think
00:15:21 00:15:25 maybe today more than ever but not
00:15:23 00:15:28 always you are competing against some
00:15:25 00:15:30 really smart Minds out there because you
00:15:28 00:15:31 know you have to beat Amazon right you
00:15:30 00:15:33 have to beat the other drop shippers
00:15:31 00:15:35 elsewhere you have to be really good at
00:15:33 00:15:37 branding like you don't have to be that
00:15:35 00:15:40 great at branding to own a local
00:15:37 00:15:42 business properly placed I don't think
00:15:40 00:15:44 one's better than the other though I
00:15:42 00:15:45 think they're just different skill sets
00:15:44 00:15:46 and you have to find which one's best
00:15:45 00:15:48 for you
00:15:46 00:15:50 yeah that's true I I see the businesses
00:15:48 00:15:52 that you deal with as very steady
00:15:50 00:15:54 they're like rocks right like you get it
00:15:52 00:15:56 set up and they just probably cash flow
00:15:54 00:15:58 forever and there's not much competition
00:15:56 00:16:00 because it's local right right whereas
00:15:58 00:16:01 Ecom is uh you have the potential to
00:16:00 00:16:02 grow a lot bigger but at the same time
00:16:01 00:16:05 it can be a lot more painful as well
00:16:02 00:16:07 yeah with one little ad that I'd have
00:16:05 00:16:10 there's I think about them like bonds
00:16:07 00:16:11 for stoks so I have a lot of bonds in
00:16:10 00:16:13 my business buying portfolio which
00:16:11 00:16:15 basically means I clip a coupon or like
00:16:13 00:16:18 I give somebody a thousand dollars and I
00:16:15 00:16:19 spent ten dollars a month back right and
00:16:18 00:16:21 so that's how I think about a lot of
00:16:19 00:16:22 these businesses I'm not trying to make
00:16:21 00:16:24 a laundromat go from a hundred thousand
00:16:22 00:16:26 dollars a year in profit to three
00:16:24 00:16:28 million that'd be really hard
00:16:26 00:16:30 um I am trying to maybe own a few of
00:16:28 00:16:32 those so I just have that cash flow
00:16:30 00:16:34 coming in consistently and then for like
00:16:32 00:16:36 one or two businesses I make a big bet
00:16:34 00:16:39 like contrain thinking my media company
00:16:36 00:16:41 is a big bet that's an equity or stok
00:16:39 00:16:43 bet which is I put in this money today
00:16:41 00:16:45 and I even put in more money into it
00:16:43 00:16:47 with the hopes that it continues to cash
00:16:45 00:16:49 flow sort of ace symmetrically or like
00:16:47 00:16:51 my return really accelerates and I can
00:16:49 00:16:52 make a lot more money and so I think you
00:16:51 00:16:54 should have bonds and stoks in your
00:16:52 00:16:57 portfolio and and that's sort of how I
00:16:54 00:16:58 think of it nice I guess the bonds in my
00:16:57 00:17:01 portfolio is like real estate right do
00:16:58 00:17:02 you consider that like a bond okay I do
00:17:01 00:17:05 the only thing I don't like about real
00:17:02 00:17:08 estate is unless you're doing
00:17:05 00:17:11 you know pretty big multi-family sure
00:17:08 00:17:13 bought a long time ago or doing Aaron B
00:17:11 00:17:16 Airbnb or maybe industrial or commercial
00:17:13 00:17:18 it's hard to cash flow enough off of the
00:17:16 00:17:21 money you have to put down and
00:17:18 00:17:23 especially as rates rise so I optimize
00:17:21 00:17:26 for cash flow but I think real estate is
00:17:23 00:17:28 really good for depreciation taxes and
00:17:26 00:17:31 long-term appreciation that's less
00:17:28 00:17:31 speculative than buying a businesses for
00:17:31 00:17:34 sure
00:17:31 00:17:35 so a lot of the listeners in my podcast
00:17:34 00:17:37 some of them are on the sidelines
00:17:35 00:17:39 they're trying to decide what to do and
00:17:37 00:17:41 I know right now it's kind of a hard
00:17:39 00:17:44 environment there's inflation what are
00:17:41 00:17:46 some ways where people can
00:17:44 00:17:48 maybe not necessarily start a business
00:17:46 00:17:49 or maybe leverage what they have to make
00:17:48 00:17:50 some money
00:17:49 00:17:52 yeah
00:17:50 00:17:54 um well I always I always say buy
00:17:52 00:17:56 instead of start because especially in a
00:17:54 00:17:58 recessionary environment where you might
00:17:56 00:18:00 have not have a ton of capital why would
00:17:58 00:18:02 you spend a bunch of money with the
00:18:00 00:18:06 hopes to earn in the future unless you
00:18:02 00:18:08 have a cool idea I'd say like use
00:18:06 00:18:11 leverage right now which means get loans
00:18:08 00:18:13 uh in order to buy a business and the
00:18:11 00:18:15 reason I think that is because you know
00:18:13 00:18:17 interest rates I do believe will
00:18:15 00:18:18 continue to rise we'll see inflation
00:18:17 00:18:22 looks like it's going to continue to
00:18:18 00:18:25 rise so if you lock in smart well done
00:18:22 00:18:28 uh debt in order to finance a business
00:18:25 00:18:30 inflation sort of eats away at your debt
00:18:28 00:18:32 because your interest rate gets locked
00:18:30 00:18:34 in if you do the the structure correctly
00:18:32 00:18:37 and then on a go forward basis you can
00:18:34 00:18:38 also increase your prices in a way that
00:18:37 00:18:40 it's hard to increase your prices let's
00:18:38 00:18:42 say if you have renters because you only
00:18:40 00:18:43 probably get to do that once a year
00:18:42 00:18:45 right
00:18:43 00:18:47 um and so I like the idea of buying
00:18:45 00:18:48 businesses actually and I think a lot of
00:18:47 00:18:50 businesses go on sale during
00:18:48 00:18:52 recessionary periods and you don't have
00:18:50 00:18:54 to have a ton of your own money you can
00:18:52 00:18:56 use SBA Loans or seller financing to do
00:18:54 00:18:58 it so I really like that I do think side
00:18:56 00:19:00 hustles can be super interesting as well
00:18:58 00:19:02 all I would say is in this sort of
00:19:00 00:19:04 environment you want to do one that you
00:19:02 00:19:05 know we have a blog post I think it's
00:19:04 00:19:07 coming out next week or the week after
00:19:05 00:19:08 about how to do
00:19:07 00:19:11 um how to basically turn your
00:19:08 00:19:13 liabilities into assets from a car
00:19:11 00:19:15 standpoint so like how to do turo well
00:19:13 00:19:18 or how to do you know how to take your
00:19:15 00:19:19 Airbnb properties and add a car to them
00:19:18 00:19:22 or like what could you do with other
00:19:19 00:19:23 assets like your pool or your bikes or
00:19:22 00:19:26 your surfboards in order for those
00:19:23 00:19:27 assets to cash flow for you I think some
00:19:26 00:19:29 of that makes sense but that will only
00:19:27 00:19:31 really get you so far before you have to
00:19:29 00:19:34 take more risk I think what people don't
00:19:31 00:19:36 realize is they start a business or they
00:19:34 00:19:38 buy a business or they start a side
00:19:36 00:19:39 hustle because they don't want to take
00:19:38 00:19:41 much risk on it meaning they don't want
00:19:39 00:19:44 to put in their own capital or too much
00:19:41 00:19:46 time but your return is only going to be
00:19:44 00:19:49 I mean how much money can you make off
00:19:46 00:19:51 of one car in a year on turo like maybe
00:19:49 00:19:53 you could make twenty thousand dollars
00:19:51 00:19:55 in total maybe you can even make fifty
00:19:53 00:19:56 thousand dollars Revenue but your profit
00:19:55 00:19:58 margin is going to be pretty low so
00:19:56 00:20:00 you'd have to have a lot of them for it
00:19:58 00:20:02 to work and so you know I think that's
00:20:00 00:20:04 okay take a little swing to start take a
00:20:02 00:20:07 little bite and then sort of stair step
00:20:04 00:20:09 your way up from a risk standpoint
00:20:07 00:20:11 I mean I guess that would be the gateway
00:20:09 00:20:12 drug right you start out with just
00:20:11 00:20:15 renting out your own car in turo and
00:20:12 00:20:16 then maybe you buy like 10 guards or at
00:20:15 00:20:19 least 10 cars with that money and scale
00:20:16 00:20:22 it from there yeah exactly yeah or start
00:20:19 00:20:24 with your own car on turo then maybe you
00:20:22 00:20:28 ask a few neighbors if they want you to
00:20:24 00:20:30 put theirs uh on turo too then you go
00:20:28 00:20:31 buy your first car you know then you
00:20:30 00:20:33 leverage the proceeds to buy the second
00:20:31 00:20:35 third fourth fifth then we've gotten
00:20:33 00:20:37 enough scale you realize huh this model
00:20:35 00:20:38 isn't actually entirely scalable and I'm
00:20:37 00:20:39 running around dropping cars off
00:20:38 00:20:43 everywhere so I'm going to sell this
00:20:39 00:20:44 business to somebody else and then I'm
00:20:43 00:20:47 gonna go take that money and I might buy
00:20:44 00:20:49 a used car lot instead right or I might
00:20:47 00:20:51 buy any a web exchange that does
00:20:49 00:20:53 something with cars selling back and
00:20:51 00:20:55 forth because that actually has a better
00:20:53 00:20:57 return profile so I think the other
00:20:55 00:20:59 thing is people spend a ton of time
00:20:57 00:21:01 saying like which type of business oh no
00:20:59 00:21:02 I don't know where to start it's like I
00:21:01 00:21:04 mean I think spend some time thinking
00:21:02 00:21:06 about that but then start and if it
00:21:04 00:21:09 doesn't work for you then sell the
00:21:06 00:21:11 business assets are transferable and
00:21:09 00:21:13 move on to a new endeavor
00:21:11 00:21:15 actually I really like your approach and
00:21:13 00:21:17 I'm just thinking back to I was an
00:21:15 00:21:20 engineer for 17 years very risk-averse
00:21:17 00:21:22 and the way I started was I went on
00:21:20 00:21:23 Craigslist and everyone was selling
00:21:22 00:21:25 their
00:21:23 00:21:27 so I would buy them
00:21:25 00:21:29 trip out the parts and sell them for
00:21:27 00:21:31 profit and that actually got me thinking
00:21:29 00:21:33 hey I could probably do this it only
00:21:31 00:21:34 scaled to like 1500 a month but after
00:21:33 00:21:36 that I was like okay maybe I can do this
00:21:34 00:21:39 e-commerce thing
00:21:36 00:21:40 so I agree so you just need to find
00:21:39 00:21:42 something to start that might not be
00:21:40 00:21:43 scalable at all in fact it doesn't
00:21:42 00:21:45 matter if it's scalable in the beginning
00:21:43 00:21:47 right yeah I think you're exactly right
00:21:45 00:21:50 yeah I've been noodling around the right
00:21:47 00:21:51 way to explain this concept but
00:21:50 00:21:54 basically I think you nailed it it's
00:21:51 00:21:56 like do the unscalable things first and
00:21:54 00:21:59 then only then will you realize what is
00:21:56 00:22:02 scalable and you can sell the former to
00:21:59 00:22:05 buy the latter and I think if you can do
00:22:02 00:22:06 that again and again and again
00:22:05 00:22:08 um that's where you start to make you
00:22:06 00:22:11 know six seven eight nine figures
00:22:08 00:22:13 because you understand you know nothing
00:22:11 00:22:15 is good or bad except by comparison so
00:22:13 00:22:16 fifteen hundred dollars a month I bet a
00:22:15 00:22:18 lot of people listening are like that'd
00:22:16 00:22:19 be awesome and then once you start
00:22:18 00:22:21 making 1500 and you see how much work
00:22:19 00:22:23 you're going in for 1500 you're like ah
00:22:21 00:22:24 it actually needs to be fifteen thousand
00:22:23 00:22:25 and then you get there and it has to be
00:22:24 00:22:28 150 and then you get there and it's got
00:22:25 00:22:30 to be 1.5 and so the cool part is is as
00:22:28 00:22:33 you grow
00:22:30 00:22:35 um it's all just a it's like a rhythm
00:22:33 00:22:36 that you get to understand
00:22:35 00:22:37 so what's funny about that Craigslist
00:22:36 00:22:39 story is I would be picking up
00:22:37 00:22:41 merchandise from these really sketchy
00:22:39 00:22:42 locations there was this one time I went
00:22:41 00:22:44 to this really bad neighborhood I was
00:22:42 00:22:46 like wearing my Stanford sweatshirt
00:22:44 00:22:48 glasses and whatnot and this guy out of
00:22:46 00:22:50 the back of a van no joke was selling
00:22:48 00:22:52 hard drives and like the wires were cut
00:22:50 00:22:52 off he didn't even bother disconnecting
00:22:52 00:22:54 him he was like hey you want to get
00:22:52 00:22:56 these hard drives or not I was so
00:22:54 00:22:59 terrified that I just bought them and I
00:22:56 00:23:01 left I didn't even test them anyway
00:22:59 00:23:03 but you know I think those stories are
00:23:01 00:23:05 important to share too because everybody
00:23:03 00:23:06 thinks that like we're some Geniuses
00:23:05 00:23:09 that have it all figured out it's like
00:23:06 00:23:11 no we just kept doing it and failed a
00:23:09 00:23:13 few times and kept going it you know on
00:23:11 00:23:15 it regardless and then eventually it's
00:23:13 00:23:16 kind of hard you know mathematikally
00:23:15 00:23:18 it's just like the law of averages if
00:23:16 00:23:20 you keep going you'll figure something
00:23:18 00:23:22 out eventually yeah totally I did want
00:23:20 00:23:24 to tok about one line that I think was
00:23:22 00:23:26 in your media kit that struck my eye it
00:23:24 00:23:28 was 20th century equals one income
00:23:26 00:23:30 stream 21st century seven to ten if you
00:23:28 00:23:32 as a human are not decentralized you're
00:23:30 00:23:33 effed I don't cuss in this podcast so I
00:23:32 00:23:36 said good for you
00:23:33 00:23:37 um so what can you kind of elaborate on
00:23:36 00:23:39 that statement
00:23:37 00:23:42 yeah so two things one I think you make
00:23:39 00:23:44 your money by earning it and then you
00:23:42 00:23:46 grow your money by investing it so I
00:23:44 00:23:48 think it's really important that people
00:23:46 00:23:50 don't try to do 47 things at once I
00:23:48 00:23:52 think it's really important that you
00:23:50 00:23:53 have focus in like one of those bets
00:23:52 00:23:56 that you think could be that asymmetric
00:23:53 00:23:59 return but where people go wrong I think
00:23:56 00:24:01 is they listen to those who have
00:23:59 00:24:03 accumulated a lot of wealth who have
00:24:01 00:24:06 survivorship bias so like I have a
00:24:03 00:24:07 friend Alex Alex hormozzi who's like you
00:24:06 00:24:09 should just do one thing every time you
00:24:07 00:24:11 start another business it's a horcrux
00:24:09 00:24:12 basically it like splits part of your
00:24:11 00:24:15 soul and part of me agrees with that but
00:24:12 00:24:17 part of me also thinks that he thinks
00:24:15 00:24:18 that way because he had really one main
00:24:17 00:24:20 business and he kept staying on it and
00:24:18 00:24:23 he won but what if that one business
00:24:20 00:24:25 that he kept staying on failed then what
00:24:23 00:24:26 did he have he had all of his eggs in
00:24:25 00:24:28 one basket and he probably would have
00:24:26 00:24:29 been sleeping on a floor and so it just
00:24:28 00:24:32 depends on how much risk you want to
00:24:29 00:24:34 take in my mind I want multiple
00:24:32 00:24:36 different Avenues because I just don't
00:24:34 00:24:39 want to be able to fail that hard which
00:24:36 00:24:40 may be means that I'm not like Alex who
00:24:39 00:24:42 sold his first business or who sold his
00:24:40 00:24:45 business for 40 or 50 million dollars or
00:24:42 00:24:47 something for part of it at like 30 or
00:24:45 00:24:49 31. but maybe what it does mean is I'm
00:24:47 00:24:51 exactly where I am which is I have a lot
00:24:49 00:24:53 of income streams I've never had like a
00:24:51 00:24:56 big huge hey here's 50 million dollars
00:24:53 00:24:58 for one chunk but I've had a lot of six
00:24:56 00:25:00 and seven figure exits over the years
00:24:58 00:25:02 that mean that I've lived really
00:25:00 00:25:04 comfortably for a long time and I don't
00:25:02 00:25:06 lose that much sleep at night ever
00:25:04 00:25:08 because I have a lot of like lures out
00:25:06 00:25:11 in the lake you know so something's kind
00:25:08 00:25:13 of always biting and I I think there's a
00:25:11 00:25:15 right and wrong way to do it for sure
00:25:13 00:25:18 but for most people
00:25:15 00:25:19 I don't think they're obsessed with one
00:25:18 00:25:22 thing with work I don't think there are
00:25:19 00:25:23 that many people who are like Elon Musk
00:25:22 00:25:26 and are willing to put in the pain that
00:25:23 00:25:28 comes with obsessing about let's say
00:25:26 00:25:29 Tesla for as long as he did I think most
00:25:28 00:25:31 people just want to live a really nice
00:25:29 00:25:34 life and and that's okay and in order to
00:25:31 00:25:36 do that I think you need to diversify
00:25:34 00:25:39 I guess I have my own opinions on this I
00:25:36 00:25:41 think in Alex's case he was in control
00:25:39 00:25:42 of everything whereas some of these
00:25:41 00:25:44 businesses at e-commerce feel I don't
00:25:42 00:25:45 know if you got a chance to tok to some
00:25:44 00:25:47 people some people are like 100 Amazon
00:25:45 00:25:49 and that to me I wouldn't be able to
00:25:47 00:25:51 sleep at night because it's controlled
00:25:49 00:25:53 by someone else right
00:25:51 00:25:55 but I am just like you like I have
00:25:53 00:25:57 probably 10 or 11 income sources that
00:25:55 00:25:58 makes me feel more comfortable but I
00:25:57 00:26:01 remember in the beginning I only really
00:25:58 00:26:03 had time to focus on one maybe Max two
00:26:01 00:26:05 things so will you always like that
00:26:03 00:26:07 Diversified or did you ever focus on
00:26:05 00:26:11 just one thing
00:26:07 00:26:11 I always had one main thing
00:26:11 00:26:15 side piece
00:26:13 00:26:18 side piece yeah yeah how does we know
00:26:15 00:26:18 about this okay yeah he wouldn't like
00:26:18 00:26:20 that
00:26:18 00:26:22 um I always had you know one other thing
00:26:20 00:26:24 on the side that I was working on too
00:26:22 00:26:26 and maybe that's just because I love
00:26:24 00:26:28 working and I get pretty obsessive but
00:26:26 00:26:32 it's hard for me to work on one thing
00:26:28 00:26:33 forever exclusively and so I don't know
00:26:32 00:26:35 I do think it's a super power to be able
00:26:33 00:26:37 to be obsessively focused on one thing
00:26:35 00:26:38 all the time I just don't have that
00:26:37 00:26:40 superpower
00:26:38 00:26:41 um so I'd have a main thing and then I'd
00:26:40 00:26:43 have an extra thing now what I wouldn't
00:26:41 00:26:45 do is start three things at once you
00:26:43 00:26:47 know that's not a good way to go but I
00:26:45 00:26:49 like get to a point in one business
00:26:47 00:26:51 where I'd be obsessed on it for like a
00:26:49 00:26:53 year two years then the business would
00:26:51 00:26:56 start to like become in a Range where
00:26:53 00:26:57 you need to manage it as opposed to like
00:26:56 00:27:00 figure it out as soon as it hit
00:26:57 00:27:01 management level I hate that part and so
00:27:00 00:27:03 at that part I need to bring in an
00:27:01 00:27:05 operator to sort of run it because I
00:27:03 00:27:06 really like the growth stage of the
00:27:05 00:27:08 business right and so I figured that out
00:27:06 00:27:11 about myself now there are plenty of
00:27:08 00:27:14 people the the more lucrative part in my
00:27:11 00:27:15 opinion is the growth stage like you
00:27:14 00:27:16 know it's motoring you're going along
00:27:15 00:27:18 all you're doing is like tweaking the
00:27:16 00:27:19 wheels basically and watching it
00:27:18 00:27:21 continue to climb and so I think it's
00:27:19 00:27:23 important that you
00:27:21 00:27:25 keep some equity in it once you've
00:27:23 00:27:27 gotten it to let's say the first one
00:27:25 00:27:29 million five million 10 million dollars
00:27:27 00:27:31 whereas a lot of people you know if
00:27:29 00:27:32 you're like me and probably like you we
00:27:31 00:27:33 really like to start things and then
00:27:32 00:27:35 it's hard
00:27:33 00:27:37 I guess for me it's I like to start
00:27:35 00:27:39 things and then uh like my wife does the
00:27:37 00:27:42 operations which is perfect that's what
00:27:39 00:27:43 she likes I hate operations and uh for
00:27:42 00:27:45 my other stuff like I have a business
00:27:43 00:27:48 partner who who helps handle operations
00:27:45 00:27:50 so yeah it's really good offsetting I
00:27:48 00:27:52 mean that's the old I always think the
00:27:50 00:27:55 words are kind of gross but the the
00:27:52 00:27:56 Visionary and the integrator and um you
00:27:55 00:27:57 know I think when you said when I call
00:27:56 00:28:00 myself a Visionary I kind of want to
00:27:57 00:28:02 vomit but but there is this you know
00:28:00 00:28:04 thing about the person who sort of comes
00:28:02 00:28:06 up with the crazy ideas takes the risk
00:28:04 00:28:08 you know moves them forward and then you
00:28:06 00:28:10 need sort of the adults in the room it's
00:28:08 00:28:12 like okay here's how we now take action
00:28:10 00:28:15 on these consistently to move them
00:28:12 00:28:16 forward yeah I'm definitely not the
00:28:15 00:28:18 adult in the room well you know I want
00:28:16 00:28:19 to switch gears because I would say
00:28:18 00:28:21 maybe two years ago I didn't see much
00:28:19 00:28:24 online but now you're like in my tik
00:28:21 00:28:26 tok feed like all day not not that I
00:28:24 00:28:27 spend all well sometimes I spend a lot
00:28:26 00:28:29 of time on tiktok but you've grown
00:28:27 00:28:30 your account like crazy
00:28:29 00:28:32 and
00:28:30 00:28:34 if you were to create contrarian
00:28:32 00:28:36 thinking I'm just kind of curious what
00:28:34 00:28:37 launched that like which traffic Source
00:28:36 00:28:40 did you focus on I know tiktok's
00:28:37 00:28:41 definitely one of them yeah tiktok's
00:28:40 00:28:43 new so we've only been on tiktok for
00:28:41 00:28:44 like the last four months I'd say five
00:28:43 00:28:47 months something like that okay well
00:28:44 00:28:49 you're killing it oh thanks so but but
00:28:47 00:28:51 tiktok's been great yeah I love it as
00:28:49 00:28:53 a growth driver originally I was really
00:28:51 00:28:55 focused on stealing other people's
00:28:53 00:28:57 audiences for the newsletter so you know
00:28:55 00:28:59 our newsletter country and thinking dot
00:28:57 00:29:00 Co is a free newsletter each and every
00:28:59 00:29:01 week
00:29:00 00:29:03 um I'm pretty laser focused on growing
00:29:01 00:29:05 that email list you know we want to be
00:29:03 00:29:07 at 300 300 000 subscribers by the end of
00:29:05 00:29:09 the year we're at like 120 000 something
00:29:07 00:29:11 like that right now and so the reason I
00:29:09 00:29:13 was so labels are focused on that is
00:29:11 00:29:14 because it's your only owned audience
00:29:13 00:29:16 it's not rented like the other social
00:29:14 00:29:17 media platforms
00:29:16 00:29:19 um but when I was first starting out we
00:29:17 00:29:21 grew a lot of that through like Facebook
00:29:19 00:29:23 groups so going into Facebook groups and
00:29:21 00:29:24 sort of commenting and adding value and
00:29:23 00:29:26 then dropping a link you know to our
00:29:24 00:29:28 newsletter or to one of our blog posts
00:29:26 00:29:30 and seeing if people wanted to sign up
00:29:28 00:29:32 um we grew a lot of it through other
00:29:30 00:29:34 social platforms like Reddit in the
00:29:32 00:29:35 beginning was really helpful
00:29:34 00:29:37 um Twitter was really helpful to grow
00:29:35 00:29:41 audiences there
00:29:37 00:29:44 um I was never very good at SEO or going
00:29:41 00:29:46 viral online generally so I had to kind
00:29:44 00:29:48 of go to other areas where people were
00:29:46 00:29:49 like-minded drop our content in there
00:29:48 00:29:52 and hope that we were able to grasp
00:29:49 00:29:54 people how do you get away with dropping
00:29:52 00:29:56 links in groups like what's your method
00:29:54 00:29:59 because I would probably ban you I mean
00:29:56 00:30:01 maybe maybe not now but yeah so I think
00:29:59 00:30:04 you have to be incredibly value-added so
00:30:01 00:30:06 you know we I think so there's an
00:30:04 00:30:08 artikle on contrarianthinking.com if you
00:30:06 00:30:09 go in and you search how to get your
00:30:08 00:30:12 first 10 000 newsletter subscribers in
00:30:09 00:30:14 30 days I basically said in 30 days I
00:30:12 00:30:15 want to grow to 10 000 people how can I
00:30:14 00:30:17 do it I'm going to document the process
00:30:15 00:30:19 and see if I could hit it and we ended
00:30:17 00:30:21 up hitting it and one of the reasons we
00:30:19 00:30:23 did is Facebook groups like Trends who's
00:30:21 00:30:24 like my friend Sam Paul's company you're
00:30:23 00:30:27 yours too
00:30:24 00:30:29 um so anyway so in their group uh I
00:30:27 00:30:32 would comment in there like hey
00:30:29 00:30:34 um you know I just uh toked to this
00:30:32 00:30:36 girl who grew her you know bought some
00:30:34 00:30:39 land and Joshua tree for ten thousand
00:30:36 00:30:41 dollars and then puts put it on hip camp
00:30:39 00:30:43 and rent it out for fifty dollars a
00:30:41 00:30:45 night for like 10 different spots on her
00:30:43 00:30:47 couple acres and now she's making like
00:30:45 00:30:48 you know thirteen thousand dollars a
00:30:47 00:30:49 month or something on it I thought the
00:30:48 00:30:51 story was really interested but I was
00:30:49 00:30:52 wondering like how I might do this and
00:30:51 00:30:54 this and this differently like what do
00:30:52 00:30:55 you guys think and then you know if this
00:30:54 00:30:57 is helpful for you I'm happy to drop
00:30:55 00:30:59 like the link to the blog post I did on
00:30:57 00:31:01 it and so it would be no blog post in it
00:30:59 00:31:03 super valuable a bunch of people would
00:31:01 00:31:07 be asking for it then I dropped the blog
00:31:03 00:31:08 post right and so okay you basically I
00:31:07 00:31:09 would have people and so then the
00:31:08 00:31:11 moderators what are the moderators gonna
00:31:09 00:31:14 do like no you guys can't have this
00:31:11 00:31:15 thing that you're asking for and so that
00:31:14 00:31:17 would be the way that I would that I
00:31:15 00:31:20 would do it and if nobody really bit on
00:31:17 00:31:22 the artikle and it wasn't or the segment
00:31:20 00:31:23 that I wrote then I wouldn't drop the
00:31:22 00:31:24 the blog post so that way you're only
00:31:23 00:31:26 giving people something that they
00:31:24 00:31:28 actually want
00:31:26 00:31:28 that's that's an interesting strategy
00:31:28 00:31:31 yeah
00:31:28 00:31:33 and then uh you're not linking to like
00:31:31 00:31:34 an email signup form really right it's
00:31:33 00:31:36 literally a blog post that probably has
00:31:34 00:31:38 an email Center form in there that's
00:31:36 00:31:40 right and I could do way better with
00:31:38 00:31:41 optimization of that like we should have
00:31:40 00:31:43 like the big thing that's like hey
00:31:41 00:31:45 there's the league magnet to how to do
00:31:43 00:31:47 exactly this we're trying to mess around
00:31:45 00:31:48 with stuff like that what I've always
00:31:47 00:31:51 been really good at I haven't always
00:31:48 00:31:53 been what I'm pretty good at is viral
00:31:51 00:31:56 content like I can come up with stuff
00:31:53 00:31:57 that I think is naturally interesting to
00:31:56 00:31:59 me and right in a way where I'm pretty
00:31:57 00:32:01 sure other people are going to be
00:31:59 00:32:03 interested but I've never been as good
00:32:01 00:32:04 at is oh how do we hook up the funnels
00:32:03 00:32:06 and how do we have the lead magnets and
00:32:04 00:32:07 then how do we flow it back through this
00:32:06 00:32:10 whole system and then how do we convert
00:32:07 00:32:12 them up to here in X and Y and Z that's
00:32:10 00:32:15 what I would do is I would focus more on
00:32:12 00:32:16 organic viral content if you can obsess
00:32:15 00:32:18 on that and then there's a lot of people
00:32:16 00:32:19 you can hire for the back end that can
00:32:18 00:32:21 help you with the optimization it's a
00:32:19 00:32:22 funny we have opposite strengths my
00:32:21 00:32:24 strength is like the tiknical back end
00:32:22 00:32:25 stuff interesting the viral content is a
00:32:24 00:32:27 little bit harder I've gotten I've like
00:32:25 00:32:29 forced myself to learn it over the years
00:32:27 00:32:30 but yeah unfortunately I'm not a
00:32:29 00:32:32 reformed journalist
00:32:30 00:32:34 I'm not sure I want to go into
00:32:32 00:32:36 journalism but uh I imagine those skills
00:32:34 00:32:38 really help you they did they did well
00:32:36 00:32:40 if you ever want to Riff on it I'm happy
00:32:38 00:32:42 to tok about it and you can help me
00:32:40 00:32:44 tok the conversion part all right well
00:32:42 00:32:45 so let's wrap up here so let's say
00:32:44 00:32:47 you're listening and you want to get
00:32:45 00:32:49 into business somehow like what what are
00:32:47 00:32:51 just like where's like one or two places
00:32:49 00:32:53 that you might look just to get started
00:32:51 00:32:55 yeah well one there's two things I'll
00:32:53 00:32:56 tok about my own sites because I think
00:32:55 00:32:58 those are the most valuable okay
00:32:56 00:33:00 slightly biased because I've created
00:32:58 00:33:01 them but uh unconventional
00:33:00 00:33:03 acquisitions.com that's where we tok
00:33:01 00:33:05 business buying in partikular there's a
00:33:03 00:33:06 free blog on there there's also paid
00:33:05 00:33:08 resources if you want to take a course
00:33:06 00:33:10 or join The Mastermind
00:33:08 00:33:12 contrarianthinking.com I think there's a
00:33:10 00:33:13 hundred and something artikles on there
00:33:12 00:33:14 one every week everything on there is
00:33:13 00:33:16 free
00:33:14 00:33:19 um you can check it out the other thing
00:33:16 00:33:20 that I might Ponder for people is just I
00:33:19 00:33:21 think there's something in
00:33:20 00:33:24 unconventional Acquisitions that's
00:33:21 00:33:26 called like our free you know nine day
00:33:24 00:33:29 challenge and it's basically nine days
00:33:26 00:33:31 of getting you to think about how it
00:33:29 00:33:34 would look if you were to buy a business
00:33:31 00:33:36 and so I sort of believe that um you
00:33:34 00:33:38 know most things are like a muscle you
00:33:36 00:33:39 just need to practike them until you get
00:33:38 00:33:42 to a point where you're like oh this
00:33:39 00:33:44 isn't as intimidating as I think it is
00:33:42 00:33:45 which is you know how I felt about
00:33:44 00:33:46 e-commerce so now I feel more
00:33:45 00:33:49 comfortable with it it's just because of
00:33:46 00:33:50 muscle memory and so um I think that
00:33:49 00:33:52 resource is really really helpful and
00:33:50 00:33:54 then everything we put out on social
00:33:52 00:33:57 hopefully most of the stuff on social I
00:33:54 00:33:59 would say is is to give you awareness of
00:33:57 00:34:01 what's happening and some quick tactiks
00:33:59 00:34:04 and tools but you really need to dive
00:34:01 00:34:07 into either like our YouTube or the
00:34:04 00:34:08 newsletters in order to go deeper
00:34:07 00:34:10 um maybe for somebody like you it'll
00:34:08 00:34:11 just trigger like oh yeah we should buy
00:34:10 00:34:13 this company and we should do this but
00:34:11 00:34:16 for most people they need like the next
00:34:13 00:34:17 step down from it right yeah and I would
00:34:16 00:34:19 say like you do a really good job on
00:34:17 00:34:23 your tiktok so getting people excited
00:34:19 00:34:24 about boring stuff good yeah yeah and
00:34:23 00:34:26 then I I guess from there at least the
00:34:24 00:34:28 pat let me tell you the path I took so I
00:34:26 00:34:30 saw these uh tiktok videos and then I
00:34:28 00:34:31 clicked on your bio and that led me to
00:34:30 00:34:33 contrary thinking and then I was like oh
00:34:31 00:34:34 okay wait she's going to be at
00:34:33 00:34:36 e-commerce fuel I need to tok to this
00:34:34 00:34:38 woman I love it that's well that and
00:34:36 00:34:39 that's perfect because then I mean
00:34:38 00:34:42 that's how I think other people get
00:34:39 00:34:45 owners in their wheelhouse too is you
00:34:42 00:34:47 know you go to these events and you
00:34:45 00:34:49 reach out to people proactively and then
00:34:47 00:34:50 in person you shoot your shot and it's
00:34:49 00:34:52 always so much easier to connect to
00:34:50 00:34:54 there uh and and especially when you're
00:34:52 00:34:56 somebody like you giving value also as
00:34:54 00:34:57 opposed to you know just asking somebody
00:34:56 00:34:59 to be your Mentor that's not very
00:34:57 00:35:01 interesting oh yeah that's the worst way
00:34:59 00:35:02 to do it I must say Cody I mean like
00:35:01 00:35:03 when I first saw you I was like maybe
00:35:02 00:35:06 this one's a little intimidating but
00:35:03 00:35:08 what the hell I'll go say hi ah if you
00:35:06 00:35:10 want to see more amazing interviews with
00:35:08 00:35:12 successful entrepreneurs then check out
00:35:10 00:35:14 this next interview right here I think
00:35:12 00:35:17 you'll enjoy it and you'll definitely be
00:35:14 00:35:17 inspired

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